UPDATE 2: Police ID Those Involved in North Hills Shooting

A Wednesday night mêlée ends with two shot, one tazed, and one hit with an axe handle.


Police released more information about a Wednesday night shooting in the 3000 block of Mount Carmel Avenue in the North Hills section of Abington.

See the initial story here.

According to police, John Razzi, 57, of North Hills; Michael Razzi, 48, of Horsham; and Joseph Turco, 44, of North Hills, entered a business at 3009 Mount Carmel Avenue to confront two men regarding a debt.

The two men — who run a business at that location — are Christopher Green, 31; and John Green, 36.

According to police, Michael Razzi had a bat or axe handle in his hands at the time, and Turco had an electric stun device in his possession. Both Greens were working on a vehicle toward the rear of the fenced-in property.

The confrontation between the two groups got physical; John Green was stuck with the axe handle. Christopher Green fired at least two shots, and one of them struck Michael Razzi in the leg.

During the struggle Turco employed the electric stun device on Christopher Green, and John Green got possession of the gun and shot John Razzi in the leg, according to police.

Christopher Green has a valid permit for the handgun.

Both Razzis were taken to to be treated for their injuries.

The investigation is ongoing; police did not say if any charges will be filed.

Check back soon for more details.


Original story below and here.

UPDATE: According to a source, a police officer called the incident “a justifiable shooting,” as the two men who were shot approached the shooters with baseball bats. 

"I was told it was like a 'wild-west' shootout over there," the source said.


Two men were shot, each in the leg, in the 3000 block of Mount Carmel Avenue last night at about 9:30 p.m.

“Basically, the people that got shot went to confront the other two men; it was a situation where the others could have been acting in self-defense,” Abington Police Deputy Chief John Livingood said this morning.

The shooter is not in custody; Livingood said, and the investigation continues. He added that more inormation would be available later. 

According to a source, the dispute involved a businessman and the shooting was over money. 

Waldo February 27, 2012 at 05:55 PM
Well then why if the Greens are such "good" people does Car and Duff have a $13,000 judgement against them for NEVER paying them rent and skipping out in the middle of the night? Why if they are such "good" people did they leave ther shop on Easton rd. in the middle of the night without paying? Why are so many angry with them and looking for them if they are such "good" people? How does it get to a point where you owe SO many people SO much money and still be considered a "good" person? The only reason they operating out of that location (illegally mind you) is because they skipped out on the previous location in the middle of the night. The town would be much better off without people like the Greens or you for that matter dtf
dtf February 27, 2012 at 07:50 PM
People like me? I do believe Carr & Duff is black listed from some major companies and facilities in philadelphia for corrupt, fake and fraudulent bills to companies is that not correct? in your view if you do dirt to someone you deserve dirt right back correct? so if the razzi's have the right to go in with bats on the greens because they believe they are running out on their bill, than carr & duff got what they deserve too. (john & chris) dont have the intention of NOT paying the razzi's and their still paying back rent on the easton road place. see this isnt about airing out dirty laundry, its about the facts. do i know who they owe money to? no.. not my business to know their personal lives like that. but i know one fact. the razzi's planed and executed to inflict bodily harm to another using deadly weapons. The fact the green's are the biggest assholes in the world doesnt mean squat!! In this country you can NOT plan to attack someone with deadly weapons just because someone owes you money. Hell, you CAN NOT "PLAN" to attack someone with deadly weapons even after the took someones life. We have a legal system here and we law biding citizens follow our system. Our systems allows for us to carry firearms to defend ourselves from bat swinging idiots who justify their own actions as the correct actions.
wp February 27, 2012 at 07:51 PM
They've had money problems well before this year so please. The Razzi's went there asking for the money and the Greens said no, they weren't loading up a truck for stuff to sell whoever told you that was full of it. What's the law gonna do anyway?? OK so the cops can never find the Greens to get served with court papers and when they do they go and lose AND still don't pay, after that there's nothing the court or cops will do cause it's a civil matter so WHAT LEGAL SYSTEM?? No wonder they went and confronted them, they were told numerous times they would get the money later well after awhile like months and months ANYONE would get pissed off and go and confront them, even you. The Razzi's didn't go up there with a bat either getting in their face, the papers don't say that cause the only statements that were gotten at the time were the Greens, They walked up and asked for the money the weapons didn't come out til after the first shot so what's that seem like to you now? Are the Greens in right still in your eyes? Your right dtf this is a small town and we all knew the truth would come out and it seems like its starting too. Also you asked "And still who attacks men with bats over a couple hundred bucks. Druggies? Drug Dealers?" um well who attacks somebody with a gun when the Greens didn't know they had anything on them? Also one of the Razzi's was never armed either so how's that justifiable?
dtf February 27, 2012 at 08:26 PM
@wp So your saying.. they went up and confronted them about the money. they said no and pulled a gun? they left went home got bats and came BACK? Or did they just so happen to have bats in their car because they were just out playing baseball with their kids? I really hope those arent the statements they gave the cops LOL... Lets say the green's did pull a gun before any weapon was drawn, why didnt they call the cops right away? I'm sorry if someone pulls a gun on me im not sticking around to see if he has the balls to use it.... im leaving and calling the cops. If their story held more grounds, the greens would not of been released hours later. the cops do have the right to hold for 48 hours until the DA can figure out what and if charges should be filed. Yes the Greens did owe me money and guess what i did?.. "Hey guys i know your broke and cant repay me so can you do some things for me and pay off what you owe" Guess what.. I got tons of labor on my cars that i didnt have to pay thousands to a automotive shop. I got the better deal out of it because they saved me a lot. I am not the only one they barter to either. plus look at the thousands of cars in or around abington the greens have built and how many of em are done based on barter deals.
wallace February 27, 2012 at 08:46 PM
well i am someone who got a legal judgement award against them. i can tell you its a worthless piece of paper. cop don't or won't enforce it.this was two years ago. tried to offer them a payment plan after time and time again they lied or never responsed. the legal owly protects the guilt people these two aren't even human. they should be put down like the animals they are. i know first hand they carry weapons because they owe people it was shown (by accident of course) to me when i tried to collect the debt they owed me. these two cowards steal cheat and rob from honest people . do you homework see if your a hole buddys owe people townships taxes?? maybe they should handle it differently but they knew people were looking for them and they knew they shot someone if they got the chance .They are a waste of someone sperm who should have down they little and maybe next time they will get to see there mom
wp February 27, 2012 at 09:15 PM
Now your putting words in my mouth and I really don't know what so funny about any of this. Like I said the Greens said no once confronted obviously a fight broke out and that's when things went very wrong. If a person ever pulled a gun on you are you gonna say excuse me I'm leaving now and then go call the cops? I doubt it. You would probably stand there frozen just like anyone else. Nobody was taken into custody because not all statements were taken except the Greens like I stated before. If the Greens wanted to trade for labor instead of money why didn't they offer? If that was the case it would have been settled, the Razzi's have done that for PLENTY of people in the area cause your right sometimes it can be a better deal but it doesn't seem like that was offered so I'm sure it wasn't.
dtf February 28, 2012 at 12:30 AM
@wp I guess you didnt know there where many witnesses who watched everything happen. I guess someone clearly didnt look around before thinking of just carrying bats around just to kindly ask for their money. <Oppps>
wp February 28, 2012 at 01:26 AM
If there were so many witnesses then how come no charges have been filed? That's what I thought, yet again your info doesn't add up yet again so oops!
JOHN R February 28, 2012 at 02:28 AM
@dtf it's great you got to bater with them but where do you think they got there materials from? yeah they bought on credit and never paid them back check it out yes there another judgement against them from the wholesale hous ethey bought from. so great you got yours and they screwed the next guy. how do i know yeah i tried to help them when they need help and trade off work since they couldn't pay either. you guessed it i got screwed to! they're world is just starting to crumb because of all the people they steal from. so check your facts before defending scum!! when you lie steal and cheat from everyone you come into contact with sooner or later it caughts up with you. i assure you this won't be there last incident with the way they live. i hope you won't be the one getting screwed or maybe you will learn if they shoot you or your family i hope not WAKE UP
rm February 28, 2012 at 03:01 AM
dtf I just have to say, if there are witnesses let them come forward then the truth will come out. If you think by saying that you are instilling fear on people, guess what it doesnt seem like your tactics are working. No one is running except your buddies. Maybe you scared them! If you scroll back through all of the blogginng that has been posted you will see how many fans the Green's have. It seems to me since you have such a heart and want to help and defend these people maybe you should talk to all of the people just on this site and offer to pay their debt off or better yet barter, since it worked for you. You say that they have had a rough year with their family and business, well maybe if they had a business plan like business men/woman have they wouldnt be in the position that they were in. You know saving money for "emergencies" Knowing that they were moving their business locations with intention on not paying rent doesnt seem to be businesslike. And it also seems to me that you are fighting this battle on your own because I am not sure where your/Green supporters are. So before you get your panties in a ruffle after reading this maybe you should stop and think about who you are defending considering you posted that they owed you money too at one point!
wp February 28, 2012 at 03:17 AM
John R is NOT John Razzi so there's no confusion.
dtf February 28, 2012 at 03:25 AM
Yes 3 witnesses. If there was not do you think the greens would be out right now? and if you friends/family's story are right. Lets just sit back and see what the DA has to say and do.
rm February 28, 2012 at 03:51 AM
dtf We can wait for that but then your friends would have to come out of hiding! I hope that you have some sort of legal background because you seem to THINK that you kow a lot but still let us get back to the what everyone keeps saying to you, think about who you are defnding. The Razzi's have been ESTABLISHED for over 40 years and have been a part of the community giving back, excuse me I missed what you said about your friends. I am understanding by your responses that you dont like to respond to the postings just your own dealings/opinions about the Green's. That is great that you support them, they are lucky to have you but could you tell me ONE good thing that they have done, or are you going to avoid this question too
wp February 28, 2012 at 04:12 AM
Yea still never answered my question...if there were witnesses then how come charges weren't filed at all that night? Especially since there were supposedly 3 witnesses? None of my questions I've asked have been answered so enough said. Let's see what the DA is going to do.
dtf February 28, 2012 at 04:21 AM
I'm not saying their perfect, but we also know the razzi's arent perfect either. So look who your defending as well. Dont even let me get started on the dirt of them. its not my place to do so..
dtf February 28, 2012 at 04:30 AM
Lets see wp, the first night the 2 were in surgery? i dunno. But i do know abington handed over the case to montco da because it was to complex for abington to handle. all statements were written up and handed over. lets sit back and wait for the DA
wp February 28, 2012 at 05:04 AM
Actually the 2 weren't in surgery that night, it was the following day and still not all statements have been made, where ever you got that info was misinformed. Nobody is this world is perfect but I have no problem defending the Razzi's and it doesn't seem like anyone else does too. Everyone makes mistakes including the Razzi's but I'm sure the "dirt" you have on them is nothing compared to last weeks shooting. So now let's see what happens.
dtf February 28, 2012 at 05:18 AM
On Tuesday, June 28, 2011, Pennsylvania (PA) Governor Tom Corbitt (R) signed a bill extending that state's traditional castle doctrine protections to assaults outside the home. The new legislation passed both houses with overwhelming support and expands the state’s castle doctrine and stand-your-ground protections to allow the right to use a gun or other deadly force in self-defense in situations outside a person’s home or business.[30] It applies when "deadly force is immediately necessary to protect [...] against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat".[31]
dtf February 28, 2012 at 05:18 AM
It explicitly denies a duty to retreat and provides legislative protection from civil actions resulting from the use of deadly force in acts of self-defense. The PA General Assembly found that: (1) It is proper for law-abiding people to protect themselves, their families and others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others. (2) The Castle Doctrine is a common law doctrine of ancient origins which declares that a home is a person's castle. (3) Section 21 of Article I of the Constitution of Pennsylvania guarantees that the "right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned." (4) Persons residing in or visiting this Commonwealth have a right to expect to remain unmolested within their homes or vehicles. (5) No person should be required to surrender his or her personal safety to a criminal, nor should a person be required to needlessly retreat in the face of intrusion or attack outside the person's home or vehicle.[31] While the findings specifically mention a defendant's home or vehicle, the amendments to state code enumerated by this legislation extend to any place that a person has a legal right to be, with a few notable exceptions (such as inside a prison).
dtf February 28, 2012 at 05:21 AM
i think that law pretty much sums up the details on which Chris and John both acted on. Now you feel the Razzi's were justified to use bats as means to collect a debt? Now come on.. this is 2012.
wp February 28, 2012 at 05:59 AM
I never said that's a justifiable way for anything, I said that bats weren't used so I don't know why you thought I said that. You can copy and paste the law we all know the law, there is still a lot of gray area around all of this, the facts will come out and it may change some minds, even yours if not then it is what it is.
wp February 28, 2012 at 05:59 AM
The DA will collect all facts, not rumors posted on the internet. It's time to let the law do it's job now.
dtf February 28, 2012 at 06:18 AM
wp, who said the bats werent used? have you seen johns body? i have just after he was released. if bats werent used god damn that some amazing mystery stuff going on lol. yea true what we read on the internet is incorrect, 3 were taking to the hospital including john green who some how suffered extreme blows to arms and back but yea... bats werent used somehow he beat himself. yes sir internet does leave out other facts.
wp February 28, 2012 at 06:26 AM
So you have been getting your info from the Green's OK enough said there cause anyone should believe a word they say ha! All FACTS will come out.
dtf February 28, 2012 at 06:50 AM
Yup that's where i heard the insight of their side. Sorry i couldn't hear the Razzi's side, they lawyer-ed up so quick. Green's waived their right to a lawyer and told their side of what happen that night.
Waldo February 28, 2012 at 02:52 PM
They waived their right for a lawyer?? They cant AFFORD a lawyer or find one that will BARTER with them?? From what I heard this is far from over so maybe they should skip town while they are still able to
dtf February 28, 2012 at 03:14 PM
Come come now sid... we all know you have had the miranda rights read to you so many times.. how can you forget them.. "You have the right to speak to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you." Drug will kill them brain cells.
rm February 28, 2012 at 04:12 PM
dtf this place is to post your opinion on what has happened you keep getting off of the subject, maybe you should start a diary for yourself to collect your thoughts on how you feel, it might make you feel better because then you dont have to continuously have people telling you that you are wrong. You get very defensive, what everyone has posted here are facts including the fact that your friends the greens owe money and are unbusiness like, wait it is hard to be unbusiness like when you are not a business person anyway. maybe you should guide your friends in the right direction with all of the energy you have
dtf March 01, 2012 at 12:35 AM
i love you you love me were a happy family with a great big hug and a kiss from me 2 you wont you say you love me 2 i love you you love me we are friends like friends should be with a great big hug and a kiss from me 2 you wont you say you love me 2
Tj March 04, 2012 at 03:14 PM
The greens are straight scum of the earth


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