they should investigate the greens they owe everyone have screwed a million people and taking them to court is useless cause law does nothing they don't pay taxes they don't have licenses. they steal customers money and get away with it all day long. when the law doesn't do anything what are business people to do. check to see if they a liscense check how many judgments they have against them. check abington on back taxes

Well clearly a true "business person" shouldn't go around threatening people and attempting to intimidate with violence to collect debts. This is why we have laws or everyone would end up dead. Clearly you have no insight on business law or law in general.

k while i do agree this is no way to handle this. i think the guy has a point that the township and police do nothing to prevent this. this guy also took my money never finished job never return money. when i went to police they said it was a civil matter . ok so i then found out they have no liscense and owe abington back taxes. why are they still running ab business. yes i do agree this is NOT THE WAY TO handle this.

Ok so lessons learned from this whole situation? Make sure you know where you take your business to, otherwise as everything in life its on you. Check out your business before you go, make sure they are reputable and licensed. Do your research before you enter into an agreement that could in fact have no legal binding? People get ripped off all the time, I have in fact many times in my life; however I do not go around assaulting people as a result. Its an uneducated and impractical way of dealing with a situation regardless of if the police listen or not.

k: Excactly! Two wrongs don't make a right,

Well I agree w george! These two are complete scumbags and will get away with anything! They have so many judgements against them its not funny. Do your research and youll see exactly how scummy they are. Its just ashame it wasnt the other way around or we wouldnt even be talking about this because NOBODY cares about the Greens!

It is pretty amazing how people are so quick to judge others without knowing everything! Our world is so full of nonsense it is a shame we live here sometimes. The story has many questions, for example shouldn't the focus be on why on earth was this Chris Green character carrying a gun on him in North Hills. Is North Hills not safe, is he a drug dealer or maybe even a gun dealer. I thought it was a "safe place" in Abington township. It is sad what happened but it doesnt say much about a person who cant pay their debt maybe they should be looking into taking financial classes to better themselves rather then applying for a permit and registration for a gun, I think that is the "STUPID" way out. I think that the focus needs to be re adjusted on these "children" who carry guns. Getting struck with an axe handle surely does not amount to shooting someone. So maybe if you were a customer of the Green's and they stole your money, you should go file a civil suit and let the authorities handle it.

Regardless of which side you are on here is the situation- If you care enough about where you are taking your service to you would do your research on reputable businesses who have feedback. If you take your business to a less reputable organization to save a buck and get ripped off, then you get what you pay for. Yes areas of North Hills are not safe, is anywhere safe anymore? There are drugs, weapons and crime all over the place, yes even in the suburbs. People have guns in Abington, Huntingdon Valley and even the best of areas. If you have a license to carry then that is covered under your right to bear arms. If someone was coming at you with an ax, certainly you wouldnt just be thinking about "what if this ax handle hits me" you are thinking that you are in danger and are going to get seriously hurt. The whole situation could have been avoided if people handled things in an appropriate manner. Everyone involved is lucky someone didn't get killed.

i believe george got it right i am also tried of these type people getting away with this crap! it"s time to take back our streets. these two are useless humans and should be taking out with the other trash. they carry guns for one reason because they are scared because they ripped off so many people. i think the razzi's are hero's who made one mistake ( taken a bat to a gun fight). we should start a fund to help them!! if the please can't handle the people should.

The greens own our company money as well. They gave us a bad check. We took them to small claims court, but somehow the sheriff was not able to find them so our case got nowhere. Would any other companies be interested in joining a suit against these fraud business men?

call the cops you have 2much 2 risk

If my life were in danger or threatened with a bat or anything like that. HELL yea i would pull my gun out and would not hesitate to shoot. Even if they owed money they were within there rights of self protection. I live on mt carmel a few buildings away and we hear gun shots all the time. Just this time someone got shot. Abington is a "brush it under the carpet" type of township. (nothing bad happenes here).

Well Redz, who do you owe money to? Because its people like you that breed people like the Greens. You must be a deadbeat too if you agree that the Greens are not scumbags. The only thing they did wrong was using wood instead of bullets but hopefully they learned their lesson for next time

"The Punisher: I leave this as a declaration of intent, so no one will be confused. One: "Si vis pacem, para bellum." Latin. Boot Camp Sergeant made us recite it like a prayer. "Si vis pacem, para bellum - IF YOU WANT PEACE, PREPARE FOR WAR."
Two: in certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment."

Well I think they the Razzi's are very wrong!!! They deserve what they got!!! You don't go after people with a bat!! Now I understand why the kids growing up are the way they are look who roll models are!!!! I guess they didn't think what the ramifications would be as result of their actions!!! This could be a negative impact on their business in the community!!!

The Razzi's are a wonderful family who made a mistake. So I hope that everyone who is posting here has never made a mistake in their life. For the past 40 years, they offered not only exceptional service but are very involved with the community. These people are truly remarkable. They would help anyone in need, even the Green's if they were honest with them instead of ripping them off. If the Green's weren't dead beats and just paid their bill when they were asked the first time none of this would have ever happened. Back to why are people walking around carrying guns? I think that these people are the NEGATIVE impact on our kids and community!

There is no right or wrong in a situation like this, regardless this is something that should have never happened and could have been avoided obviously, but the Greens chose to screw somebody, why didn't they pay and why haven't they paid other people that did business with them? Nobody is asking that. I think they had no desire to pay but regardless of why this went down it shouldn't have and I really don't think the paper told the whole story because there are alot of missing pieces that we will probably never know about so to say the Razzi's deserved that makes me wonder what type of person you are, yea talk about a role model, you must be a friend of the Greens.

You can call the Greens deadbeats all you want but you dont even know the half of what their lives have been the last year. After losing their mother John has been in and out of the hospital very sick. Yes they fell behind on projects big time but everyone's projects where completed. even after they had to move out of their shop they still continued to work on projects out of their pockets which really put them behind. the green's are type of guys who do anything for people and always find a way to pay off debt. When this went down the greens were in the process of loading up items they were selling to get the money for them. And still who attacks men with bats over a couple hundred bucks. Druggies? Drug Dealers?

Its pretty funny those who claim the Razzi's are in the right call those who carry firearms the bad people in this world. Really? We exercise our conditional rights because of people like you!!

@RM you claim their great people but their still not even admitting what they did was wrong and are still trying to get people in the town against the greens. This maybe a big town but it really isnt. The same people you talk to also talk to the greens. If the Razzi's are such great people and business owners, WHY cant they let the legal system do its job!! A real man / business man/woman does not resort to violence as a course of action.

Well then why if the Greens are such "good" people does Car and Duff have a $13,000 judgement against them for NEVER paying them rent and skipping out in the middle of the night? Why if they are such "good" people did they leave ther shop on Easton rd. in the middle of the night without paying? Why are so many angry with them and looking for them if they are such "good" people? How does it get to a point where you owe SO many people SO much money and still be considered a "good" person? The only reason they operating out of that location (illegally mind you) is because they skipped out on the previous location in the middle of the night. The town would be much better off without people like the Greens or you for that matter dtf

People like me? I do believe Carr & Duff is black listed from some major companies and facilities in philadelphia for corrupt, fake and fraudulent bills to companies is that not correct? in your view if you do dirt to someone you deserve dirt right back correct? so if the razzi's have the right to go in with bats on the greens because they believe they are running out on their bill, than carr & duff got what they deserve too. (john & chris) dont have the intention of NOT paying the razzi's and their still paying back rent on the easton road place. see this isnt about airing out dirty laundry, its about the facts. do i know who they owe money to? no.. not my business to know their personal lives like that. but i know one fact. the razzi's planed and executed to inflict bodily harm to another using deadly weapons. The fact the green's are the biggest assholes in the world doesnt mean squat!! In this country you can NOT plan to attack someone with deadly weapons just because someone owes you money. Hell, you CAN NOT "PLAN" to attack someone with deadly weapons even after the took someones life. We have a legal system here and we law biding citizens follow our system. Our systems allows for us to carry firearms to defend ourselves from bat swinging idiots who justify their own actions as the correct actions.

They've had money problems well before this year so please.

The Razzi's went there asking for the money and the Greens said no, they weren't loading up a truck for stuff to sell whoever told you that was full of it. What's the law gonna do anyway?? OK so the cops can never find the Greens to get served with court papers and when they do they go and lose AND still don't pay, after that there's nothing the court or cops will do cause it's a civil matter so WHAT LEGAL SYSTEM?? No wonder they went and confronted them, they were told numerous times they would get the money later well after awhile like months and months ANYONE would get pissed off and go and confront them, even you. The Razzi's didn't go up there with a bat either getting in their face, the papers don't say that cause the only statements that were gotten at the time were the Greens, They walked up and asked for the money the weapons didn't come out til after the first shot so what's that seem like to you now? Are the Greens in right still in your eyes?

Your right dtf this is a small town and we all knew the truth would come out and it seems like its starting too. Also you asked "And still who attacks men with bats over a couple hundred bucks. Druggies? Drug Dealers?" um well who attacks somebody with a gun when the Greens didn't know they had anything on them? Also one of the Razzi's was never armed either so how's that justifiable?

@wp So your saying.. they went up and confronted them about the money. they said no and pulled a gun? they left went home got bats and came BACK? Or did they just so happen to have bats in their car because they were just out playing baseball with their kids? I really hope those arent the statements they gave the cops LOL... Lets say the green's did pull a gun before any weapon was drawn, why didnt they call the cops right away? I'm sorry if someone pulls a gun on me im not sticking around to see if he has the balls to use it.... im leaving and calling the cops. If their story held more grounds, the greens would not of been released hours later. the cops do have the right to hold for 48 hours until the DA can figure out what and if charges should be filed.
Yes the Greens did owe me money and guess what i did?.. "Hey guys i know your broke and cant repay me so can you do some things for me and pay off what you owe" Guess what.. I got tons of labor on my cars that i didnt have to pay thousands to a automotive shop. I got the better deal out of it because they saved me a lot. I am not the only one they barter to either. plus look at the thousands of cars in or around abington the greens have built and how many of em are done based on barter deals.

well i am someone who got a legal judgement award against them. i can tell you its a worthless piece of paper. cop don't or won't enforce it.this was two years ago. tried to offer them a payment plan after time and time again they lied or never responsed. the legal owly protects the guilt people these two aren't even human. they should be put down like the animals they are. i know first hand they carry weapons because they owe people it was shown (by accident of course) to me when i tried to collect the debt they owed me. these two cowards steal cheat and rob from honest people . do you homework see if your a hole buddys owe people townships taxes?? maybe they should handle it differently but they knew people were looking for them and they knew they shot someone if they got the chance .They are a waste of someone sperm who should have down they little and maybe next time they will get to see there mom

Now your putting words in my mouth and I really don't know what so funny about any of this. Like I said the Greens said no once confronted obviously a fight broke out and that's when things went very wrong. If a person ever pulled a gun on you are you gonna say excuse me I'm leaving now and then go call the cops? I doubt it. You would probably stand there frozen just like anyone else. Nobody was taken into custody because not all statements were taken except the Greens like I stated before.

If the Greens wanted to trade for labor instead of money why didn't they offer? If that was the case it would have been settled, the Razzi's have done that for PLENTY of people in the area cause your right sometimes it can be a better deal but it doesn't seem like that was offered so I'm sure it wasn't.

@wp I guess you didnt know there where many witnesses who watched everything happen. I guess someone clearly didnt look around before thinking of just carrying bats around just to kindly ask for their money. <Oppps>

If there were so many witnesses then how come no charges have been filed? That's what I thought, yet again your info doesn't add up yet again so oops!

dtf I just have to say, if there are witnesses let them come forward then the truth will come out. If you think by saying that you are instilling fear on people, guess what it doesnt seem like your tactics are working. No one is running except your buddies. Maybe you scared them! If you scroll back through all of the blogginng that has been posted you will see how many fans the Green's have. It seems to me since you have such a heart and want to help and defend these people maybe you should talk to all of the people just on this site and offer to pay their debt off or better yet barter, since it worked for you. You say that they have had a rough year with their family and business, well maybe if they had a business plan like business men/woman have they wouldnt be in the position that they were in. You know saving money for "emergencies" Knowing that they were moving their business locations with intention on not paying rent doesnt seem to be businesslike. And it also seems to me that you are fighting this battle on your own because I am not sure where your/Green supporters are. So before you get your panties in a ruffle after reading this maybe you should stop and think about who you are defending considering you posted that they owed you money too at one point!

John R is NOT John Razzi so there's no confusion.

dtf We can wait for that but then your friends would have to come out of hiding! I hope that you have some sort of legal background because you seem to THINK that you kow a lot but still let us get back to the what everyone keeps saying to you, think about who you are defnding. The Razzi's have been ESTABLISHED for over 40 years and have been a part of the community giving back, excuse me I missed what you said about your friends. I am understanding by your responses that you dont like to respond to the postings just your own dealings/opinions about the Green's. That is great that you support them, they are lucky to have you but could you tell me ONE good thing that they have done, or are you going to avoid this question too

Yea still never answered my question...if there were witnesses then how come charges weren't filed at all that night? Especially since there were supposedly 3 witnesses? None of my questions I've asked have been answered so enough said.

Let's see what the DA is going to do.

I'm not saying their perfect, but we also know the razzi's arent perfect either. So look who your defending as well. Dont even let me get started on the dirt of them. its not my place to do so..

Actually the 2 weren't in surgery that night, it was the following day and still not all statements have been made, where ever you got that info was misinformed.

Nobody is this world is perfect but I have no problem defending the Razzi's and it doesn't seem like anyone else does too. Everyone makes mistakes including the Razzi's but I'm sure the "dirt" you have on them is nothing compared to last weeks shooting. So now let's see what happens.

On Tuesday, June 28, 2011, Pennsylvania (PA) Governor Tom Corbitt (R) signed a bill extending that state's traditional castle doctrine protections to assaults outside the home. The new legislation passed both houses with overwhelming support and expands the state’s castle doctrine and stand-your-ground protections to allow the right to use a gun or other deadly force in self-defense in situations outside a person’s home or business.[30] It applies when "deadly force is immediately necessary to protect [...] against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat".[31]

It explicitly denies a duty to retreat and provides legislative protection from civil actions resulting from the use of deadly force in acts of self-defense. The PA General Assembly found that:

(1) It is proper for law-abiding people to protect themselves, their families and others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others.
(2) The Castle Doctrine is a common law doctrine of ancient origins which declares that a home is a person's castle.
(3) Section 21 of Article I of the Constitution of Pennsylvania guarantees that the "right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."
(4) Persons residing in or visiting this Commonwealth have a right to expect to remain unmolested within their homes or vehicles.
(5) No person should be required to surrender his or her personal safety to a criminal, nor should a person be required to needlessly retreat in the face of intrusion or attack outside the person's home or vehicle.[31]
While the findings specifically mention a defendant's home or vehicle, the amendments to state code enumerated by this legislation extend to any place that a person has a legal right to be, with a few notable exceptions (such as inside a prison).

i think that law pretty much sums up the details on which Chris and John both acted on. Now you feel the Razzi's were justified to use bats as means to collect a debt? Now come on.. this is 2012.

I never said that's a justifiable way for anything, I said that bats weren't used so I don't know why you thought I said that. You can copy and paste the law we all know the law, there is still a lot of gray area around all of this, the facts will come out and it may change some minds, even yours if not then it is what it is.

The DA will collect all facts, not rumors posted on the internet. It's time to let the law do it's job now.

wp, who said the bats werent used? have you seen johns body? i have just after he was released. if bats werent used god damn that some amazing mystery stuff going on lol. yea true what we read on the internet is incorrect, 3 were taking to the hospital including john green who some how suffered extreme blows to arms and back but yea... bats werent used somehow he beat himself. yes sir internet does leave out other facts.

So you have been getting your info from the Green's OK enough said there cause anyone should believe a word they say ha!

All FACTS will come out.

Yup that's where i heard the insight of their side. Sorry i couldn't hear the Razzi's side, they lawyer-ed up so quick. Green's waived their right to a lawyer and told their side of what happen that night.

They waived their right for a lawyer?? They cant AFFORD a lawyer or find one that will BARTER with them?? From what I heard this is far from over so maybe they should skip town while they are still able to

Come come now sid... we all know you have had the miranda rights read to you so many times.. how can you forget them.. "You have the right to speak to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you." Drug will kill them brain cells.

dtf this place is to post your opinion on what has happened you keep getting off of the subject, maybe you should start a diary for yourself to collect your thoughts on how you feel, it might make you feel better because then you dont have to continuously have people telling you that you are wrong. You get very defensive, what everyone has posted here are facts including the fact that your friends the greens owe money and are unbusiness like, wait it is hard to be unbusiness like when you are not a business person anyway. maybe you should guide your friends in the right direction with all of the energy you have

i love you you love me were a happy family with a great big hug and a kiss from me 2 you wont you say you love me 2 i love you you love me we are friends like friends should be with a great big hug and a kiss from me 2 you wont you say you love me 2

The greens are straight scum of the earth